Life after Ajax: in conversation with Edwin van der Sar

His sports career was marked by gold. He won the Champions League twice with Ajax and Manchester United, won the Club World Cup twice, and earned 130 caps. At 40, he retired after another Champions League final, only to join Ajax as director a year later. During that period, he led […]

His sporting career was a golden one. He won the Champions League twice with Ajax and Manchester United, won the Club World Cup twice, and earned 130 caps. At 40, he retired with another Champions League final, only to take over as director of Ajax a year later. During that period, he led the club to unprecedented heights, only to drop out when the team around him fell apart. Less than three months later, he suffered a brain hemorrhage. Jaap de Groot discusses this and much more in depth with the now fully healthy Edwin van der Sar.

Text Jaap de Groot
Photography Károly Effenberger
With thanks to Grand Hotel Huis ter Duin

How are you?

Things are going really well. I'm enjoying life and doing a lot of fun things. I'm no longer in a hurry, and I'm no longer burdened by all sorts of problems. My life has become more relaxed. My health is also very good. Fortunately, I've recovered from that brain hemorrhage and don't feel held back by anything anymore.

So, are you going to start working somewhere again in the near future?

I've had a goal my whole life. First as a player and later as a director, when my goal was to protect Ajax and take it to the next level. I miss that now. The shared feeling you have with a team of people, as a point on the horizon. With all the knowledge I've gathered over the years as a footballer and director, I'm not doing much at the moment. I do occasionally have conversations with headhunters or certain parties. That's certainly valuable for me and the people I talk to. I just haven't encountered anything yet that makes me feel like I want to give it my all.

In the meantime, you make promotional trips to Asia and other continents.

These are interesting commercial outings that capitalize on my celebrity. Recently, in China, a milk producer brought together children from all over China for a youth tournament. Two to three hundred selected fans were allowed to have their picture taken with me or participate in a Q&A. It was a lot of fun. The enthusiasm around you and visiting cities you've never been to before. Like Chengdu, in southwest China. A beautiful city with lovely people. Very green, very modern, and I had delicious food. Honestly, I would have liked to stay a bit longer. Overall, it was a very dynamic trip. Two days here, then another three-hour flight and doing your thing, before taking the bullet train back to Beijing. Then came Malaysia, for an event organized by a businessman who brings in a celebrity every month to promote his supermarkets. It makes you realize just how big football is in Asia and how, despite the problems they face on the pitch, Manchester United still has a global presence. Another trip is planned for the end of October. So, I won't be bored.

Are you seen in Malaysia as the Edwin van der Sar of the Dutch national team, Ajax or Manchester United?

Judging by the shirts they're wearing, 95% are Manchester United. And about 3% are wearing an Ajax or Dutch national team shirt. Every now and then you see one from Juventus, and recently even a shirt from my farewell match in 2011. It makes clear how enormous Manchester United is. Fans even flew from Thailand to Malaysia to meet me, waiting eight hours in the hotel lobby for that. Yet, I also regularly notice the impact of things we've accomplished with Ajax. Doors that open because you were the one in charge at the time. It's fantastic to experience that.

At the same time, you experience how geopolitical power, even in top-level sport, has increasingly shifted to Asia, America and the Middle East.

If you look at where the World Cups and Olympic Games will be held over the next ten years, it's stating the obvious. For some countries, it also serves a clear marketing function. Like Saudi Arabia, where, unlike other Middle Eastern countries, the stands are full. There's a decent league now, and the country is being portrayed in a certain way to gain greater acceptance in the next phase. Sport is often abused; let's hope it's used effectively here as well. However, you can't expect it to function according to Western ideals within two or three years. Just look at the World Cup in Qatar. You heard nothing from South America, little from Southern Europe either, nothing at all from Asia and America… Only Northern Europe raised the alarm. If you travel to many different continents, you see that many different countries have different standards for further growth. And each country does so at a pace that suits its country and culture. It's certainly fascinating to see how the value of top-level football is taking off, but at the same time, we shouldn't lose sight of its value to society. It's a great thing that football allows children to play together. Socially, but also for their health. This also applies to older people. Especially now that healthcare is under so much pressure, healthy exercise is a way to live a healthier life. No matter where in the world.

How do you see the future of Dutch top-level football, now that international development is accelerating?

During my time at Ajax, we tried to connect internationally and aim for the top of Europe. I spent twelve years in the thick of it. In the Netherlands, we must continue to ensure good training, scout players effectively, and ensure clubs pay enough for the talent they acquire. It's the formula for the Netherlands to grow your team and club. There are several roads that lead to Rome. Ajax had the IPO, PSV a group of strong regional partners, and Feyenoord has the Friends. Last year, I attended a seminar in Italy about different forms of ownership at football clubs. FC Porto and Ajax are more or less the same. Fundamentally, clubs develop their own players. Then you have Lille, which has a private equity firm; Torino, which is owned by a local businessman; AC Milan has now gone through four owners; while in England, almost no club is still under English ownership. It was very interesting. What are the revenue models? How do you attract capital to strengthen the club? Knowing that we're in a market that's incredibly diverse. With America as the most effective model. You have a certain number of teams in one league – and that's it. This creates a very direct approach to the market and commercial partners, which you won't get in Europe. At least not yet.

Did you already have managerial ambitions when you retired from football?

It's happened to me before. The talk at Ajax back then was to bring more former players into the organization, not just as managers. After conversations with Johan Cruyff and Edgar Davids, who was on the supervisory board at the time, things really got moving during my last year at Manchester United. I didn't really want to continue as a manager or coach, so I invested a year in myself by taking a management course. During that time, I spoke extensively with board members and, in the fall of 2012, embarked on a valuable project with then-general manager Michael Kinsbergen.

What have you learned during those ten years as a director?

"Everything, really. As a footballer, you know the dressing room, you know what a manager says in a pre-match briefing and how the coaching is conducted during matches. You're primarily focused on the pitch and what needs to happen there. As a manager, I've taken more or less the same steps as I did as a young player. First, I get a taste of the first team, then a substitute appearance, then you're on the bench for four games in a row, and finally you're in the starting lineup. That's how it went for me as a manager too. Initially, I focused entirely on Ajax. Later, through my network at the KNVB, ECA, UEFA, and FIFA, I think I achieved a few positive things for Dutch football, our academies, and the clubs."

What ultimately went wrong at Ajax?

To borrow a phrase from Leo Beenhakker: 'Do you have a moment...' I don't really feel like saying much about that. Also because I'm still quite in touch with the people from that time who are still there, and I'm not going to get in their way. That's not how I am.

After the Velvet Revolution, there were 14 former players on the members' council, the board, the management, and a technical team with four former footballers. Ten years later, only you were left. Is that the crux of the problem?

Step by step, the gaps fell away, and at a certain point, I wasn't happy anymore. I started thinking: I don't want to keep doing this for years to come. However, I did find it an honor to lead the club, which gave me opportunities as a player, as a director for several years to a level few would have expected.

What you have proven above all is that in top-level sport what is not possible and what is not possible does not exist.

That's right. No one expected a club from a smaller country with a budget of €120, €130 million to perform so well in Europe. Purely based on thorough scouting, a strong youth academy, and making the right choices. You can see that there's still a lot to be gained this way at other clubs, and even in the Premier League with Brentford, Bournemouth, and Crystal Palace. Even now, big money doesn't always have to win over a club that's more inventive and has a clear strategy with a good team. A strategy that you have to have right from top to bottom. That strategy has been disrupted in several areas at Ajax over the past year and a half. It wasn't a straight line anymore; it was running from left to right and no longer a straight line down.

Did you make Ajax bigger than the club could handle?

The club is a big deal, of course. When you're successful, you can keep that at bay. But as soon as certain things start to happen, you see people emerge with different opinions or with unfinished business. That creates divisions, and unfortunately, that doesn't benefit Ajax. At some point, you have to do the math: are you still enjoying yourself, how much energy is it taking, and what are the benefits? I came to the conclusion that the pole I had to take the club forward wasn't long enough anymore, and it was time to let others take over.

How do you look back on that period?

I didn't hesitate to step outside my comfort zone and take on things I hadn't been trained for. To do that, I gathered people with different qualities around me and tried to build the best possible team. Just as a team needs to be on the pitch, the same applies to the boardroom. It's like a team. You look at the bottom and see what you can take away from there and add something at the top. The reality is that Ajax often loses out at the top, which is what ultimately happened to Marc Overmars, Erik ten Hag, Frank de Boer, Dennis Bergkamp, ​​and Wim Jonk. With a board, it's just like with a team. You have to know who's leaving and what's coming up at the right times. That process could have been much better.

Did the doctors make a connection between the tension at Ajax and the brain hemorrhage you suffered three months later?

Not really, actually. Me neither, actually. You do hear stories about people who retire and suffer a heart attack shortly afterward. But you don't hear about the 99,5 percent who retire and live without any problems. My wife had it in 2009, which clearly shows that sometimes you're unlucky and sometimes you're lucky. Annemarie and I were both fortunate enough to come out of it well. Only I'll never know if it had anything to do with the extra pressure at Ajax. Because it happens to other healthy people too. But it was clear that I wanted a quieter life, but this was a very abrupt stop after my retirement.

Who have you learned the most from as a footballer?

I didn't join Ajax until I was eighteen and was immediately put through the paces. What could you do, what couldn't you do, what did you need to improve? Goalkeeping coaches Frans Hoek and Louis van Gaal were very focused on that, while I also watched a lot of Stanley Menzo, who was the first-choice goalkeeper at the time. So those three were very important. Alex Ferguson? That's different. I joined Manchester United at 34. I knew I could handle the level, and Ferguson gave me the chance to prove it, which allowed me to experience my Van Breukelen moment later in life. Winning the top prize for a club like Manchester United by saving the decisive penalty in the Champions League final. I still feel the impact of that. All over the world. Recently, in Kenya, a police officer spontaneously stopped and asked: 'Are you Edwin van der Sar, can I shake your hand?' Or a waiter you recognize in a restaurant in Shanghai. The same in America and Mexico: every time I realize how much that one moment meant to so many people. That's what sport does. Marianne Timmer becoming Olympic champion, Tom Dumoulin winning the Giro d'Italia, Joop Zoetemelk's world title, and let's not forget Max Verstappen—these are moments that will be etched in our memories forever. I'm incredibly grateful that I was able to create such a moment.

"As soon as certain issues arise, you see people emerge who think differently or have unfinished business. That creates divisions, and unfortunately, that doesn't benefit Ajax."

Who have you learned the most from in terms of management?

I've learned a lot from Michael Kinsbergen, the various supervisory board chairs, and colleagues from other clubs in Europe. I'm not a one-man bandwagoner and I'm open to outside influences. I want to lead a team, and above all, not be a loner. I've been that way for a long time as a goalkeeper, although even from that position, I was always focused on the team. I also had that as general manager. The realization that you need a good organization to perform. Of course, as the person ultimately responsible, you have to make the final decision, but that's always based on advice from the people who know the most about it.

Who have you learned the most from as a person?

My parents, who raised me in a very normal environment, meant that at eighteen I was ready to take an important step in my life by joining Ajax. They're both still alive and have been able to experience my career in a truly wonderful way. Due to health reasons, my mother hadn't seen a live match of mine for eleven or twelve years, until she insisted on coming to the 2008 Champions League final between Manchester United and Chelsea. It was pretty much the most exciting match ever, even though she was having heart problems. With all those penalties at the end, and then your son grabbing the decisive ball. You can't imagine what that means for parents.

In what role will we see you again in football?

"If I do anything, it will be more on the international stage. I played in the Netherlands, and for the best club, too. It's great."