ART THAT MAKES YOU LOOK AT THE WORLD DIFFERENTLY

The installations and objects of the art and design duo Rive Roshan fit the zeitgeist of today, as they challenge us to look at the world from a new perspective. "Our work implies progression, development, movement ... It's important for everyone to think carefully about how we interact with the world and how we should move forward." Interview with Ruben de la Rive Box (Naarden, 1981) and his partner Golnar Roshan (Sydney, 1986).Text: Bart-Jan Brouwer

Where does your fascination with design come from?

Ruben: "It's in our genes: Gol's father is a graphic designer, my father is an industrial designer and, together with Wim Crouwel and others, was a board member of the then Stichting industrieel Ontwerpen Nederland (iON), which promoted originality in industrial design. Not that we were expected to become designers ourselves, but we did grow up in an environment where that way of thinking prevailed. For example, I had many discussions with my father about design, and Gol regularly visited print shops with her father. We simply felt comfortable with that. Gol and I are different in a lot of ways; we have completely different backgrounds. But when we first met, it seemed like we understood each other on every level. I think that's partly because of the way we grew up, with fathers who are very passionate about all things design and proud to be designers."
Golnar: "Growing up in an environment where art, music and poetry play a big role is deeply ingrained in us. That contributes to our own desire to live a life filled with creativity, and we recognize that in the other person. We draw from the same sources of inspiration, share a love of aesthetics and speak the same creative language. So I felt an instant connection when I first met Ruben. We had a real creative spark."

How did you come across each other's paths?

Golnar: "I had just graduated from Sydney and applied for a job at Studio Marcel Wanders, where Ruben was working at the time. My application struck a chord, as I was invited to come to Amsterdam."
Ruben: "This played out in 2011. The crisis that had erupted in America in 2009 had spread all over the world around that time. I remember going through hundreds of cover letters where you could read desperation between the lines. Gol's letter was distinguished by positivism and enthusiasm. I knew immediately that she would be a pleasant person to work with. From all the portfolios, I made a top three and put her at one."

How did your vision take shape?

Golnar: "That is constantly evolving. Because of our background, we are both visual and intuitive rather than scientific. We look at what we do in a poetic way. That is the basis of everything we have done so far. Another thing that has contributed to our signature is that we are not afraid to work with something we are not familiar with. A lot of what we make comes from the naivete of working with a material or the freedom to look at something from a completely different perspective. We are not bound by one material or one technique."
Ruben: "We work at the interface of product, interior and graphic design and often move between art and design. So our work is pretty broad."

Describe your signature.

Ruben: "First, it contains visual wonder and often a reference to nature. All the information that comes to you through your senses is processed by your brain. That determines what to pay attention to and what not to pay attention to. The more familiar you are with something, the less attention you give it. When you have just moved in, you notice all kinds of things. After a few years, nothing catches your eye. In nature, it is different. Although you are familiar with it, it always comes in. Something in the human brain allows itself to be stimulated again and again. No matter how many times you've seen a sunset, it continues to trigger. A rainbow? Everyone in the office runs to the window to see it. In our work, we strive for that wonder, too. Without copying nature - that wouldn't even be possible - we try to make something that has the same effect on people. We want our art to attract like a rainbow. Something that you keep looking at, that continues to amaze."
Golnar: "Second, our signature has to do with perception. How can we influence someone's perception? The Colour Shift Panel - a panel of colored, wavy glass - is a good example: the reflections are different from every vantage point because of the changing light. They are always changing, shifting and challenging."

Why did you return to Amsterdam in the first place?

Ruben: "I see London as the New York of Europe: a big, international melting pot. When the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union in the summer of 2016, we knew that would be the Achilles' heel of such a place. And it proved to be. Even though we had a good time in England, we previously considered going back, because of family and friends. The Brexit made that decision easier."
Golnar: "We didn't want to be in an environment that pushes for non-inclusiveness, felt no connection to the political values that rule there. It was a good decision, otherwise we would have had to deal with a lot of bureaucracy. Besides, from England we always had to take the plane, ferry or train if we wanted to go to another European city. In the Netherlands, you just get in your car if you want to go to a gallery in Paris. That also played into it. And that's why we didn't choose to move to Australia, which also came up briefly. We wanted to stay connected to cities like Paris, Rome, Basel and Milan. Normally we go to Australia for a few weeks every year around Christmas, only now with corona that's not realistic because you have to be quarantined for two weeks on arrival."
Ruben: "The situation in Amsterdam is very different than it was in London, though. Since we have a little daughter, we are less flexible with our time. And in Amsterdam you can't easily find a big affordable space like the old furniture factory, where you can do everything. We have several workplaces here - a compact studio in the former grain silo, a temporary exhibition space in a canal house, a workplace in Slotermeer - which means we now work more separately than before. But it is still mainly 'working together' what we do. Partly because much of our work consists of talking, discussing and sometimes bickering with each other."
Golnar: "We always try to find the essence in what we do. You can have so many ideas, what matters is that they have substance."

Nature is a big inspiration for you guys. So do you spend a lot of time there?

Ruben: "It's not that we go hiking in the Alps to try to convey in a work the grandeur of the high mountains. Nature is more like a raindrop for us. It's more about the little things, how wind blows over sand, for example."
Golnar: "When we moved to Amsterdam, water became an important element in our work. Our studio is on the IJ; we only have to look outside to see the movement of water. It is always different, depending on the weather, the time of day, whether a freighter has just passed by... We are inspired by the daily interaction with the simple aspects of nature."
Ruben: "Sometimes that leads to almost one-to-one works of art. We were invited by the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney to create an artwork to depict future life. This was playing just as corona was making its appearance. We could not travel, had to work from our sitting room via screens with people on the other side of the world, who would shape the artwork. What would future life look like? Maybe this was it: that we were stuck at home, cut off from nature, from outside. That was already a reality for half the world's population - living in cities. The only connection we had with nature were reflections of the sun in the water drawing playful patterns on our wall. Time to Reflect is based on that: a series of sculptural moving light objects that bring the rhythm of nature into the home - lens-like glass bowls covered by a thin layer of mica and with a reflective coating."
Golnar: "And for Moooi Carpets, we created water-inspired rugs, the Fluids collection. For that, we literally used photographs of the IJ as a basis."

What did your collaboration with KLM entail?

Ruben: "KLM celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2019 and wanted a special cover for their in-flight magazine Holland Herald. They approached us wanting something 'typically Dutch'. Somehow that is far from us: we are an international studio and very abstract in how we interpret things. So a tulip wasn't going to be it, haha. Golnar's very first experience with Holland was from behind the airplane window. It struck her how organized our country is: with straight lines and ditches, roads and fields, tulip fields... Even the forests are square. When the sun reflects in the ditches, that pattern lights up very nicely in the landscape. We ended up creating a composition, titled Dutch Light, in which light, color and the organization of the land come together. We find it more valuable to reinterpret something than to do something cliché - we do want to add something to the culture."

Do you collect design?

Ruben: "If something comes in front of my feet that is really beautiful, I like to buy it. For example, at home we have the Knotted Chair by Marcel Wanders, a table and chairs by Piet Hein Eek, the Smoked Chair by Maarten Baas, a panel by Tord Boontje and all kinds of accessories by Tom Dixon. Above all, you can see the history of where we worked. For the first time, we now have something of our own in our home."

Where do you expect to be in ten years?

Golnar: "We have dreams ... For example, we would love to create something for the Turbine Hall at the Tate Modern. A place with impact."
Ruben: "We aim for a place where we can work in pairs, but also with a team. To implement our ideas, we need space to make projects, people to help us and places to exhibit. The Turbine Hall is a location with history, where there has been work that has inspired us. Our ultimate goal is to make a work that really changes the way someone looks at the world. Like Ai Weiwei's Sunflower Seeds did for me, an installation exhibited at Turbine Hall in 2010. When Alexander McQueen had just died, we went to a retrospective of his work. There you could really see how his creations changed the way people looked at fashion. The difference in the world before and after him was clearly visible. I hope that in 10 years we will have a similar impact, or at least be on the right track."